Heli, Barbara and their two children are a happy family. Not only because the parents both earn their living as clowns, but
also because these four people are good for each other. The extent to which Barbara's life is ruptured when her three loved
ones die in a car accident is scarcely conceivable. FOUR MINUS THREE is based on a real stroke of fate. To convey the force involved tangibly, step by step, Adrian Goiginger entwines Barbara's
life before and after, thus creating space for both the pain and her determination to make a new start.
FOUR MINUS THREE is the first of your films where you didn’t write the screenplay yourself. Was your initial encounter with
Barbara Pachl-Eberhart's story through a finished screenplay, or did you come into contact with the story earlier?
ADRIAN GOIGINGER: We intended to produce the film with 2010 Entertainment and Giganten Film in Germany, but at first I didn't know whether or
not I wanted to direct it. When I read the synopsis of FOUR MINUS THREE, my second child had just been born. My immediate
reaction was that this story of a woman who loses her husband and children in one fell swoop was too intense for me. But I
recommended the writer Senad Halilbašić: I was familiar with his work from other scripts, and I always found his approach
very interesting. I left it open whether or not I might want to be involved in the project at a later stage. It was only through
Senad's first draft of the script, and his perspective on the story, that I realized it’s more about hope and life after the
accident than about presenting a tragedy. That made me eager to make this film.
One constant factor that runs through all five of your feature films – The Best of All Worlds, Märzengrund, The Fox, Rickerl – is the interface between real people or events and their fictionalization. Is an anchor in reality an important element
for you in the material you work with?
ADRIAN GOIGINGER: I think so. A real core is enough. Although Rickerl is very fictional, we made use of several anecdotes about Voodoo Jürgens and actual events in his life. Once you have an
approach rooted in reality, there’s something for you to research and explore. That preparatory phase, where you conduct interviews,
collect photographic and video material, experiment and try to dive deeper into a topic, is one of the phases I enjoy most.
And I’ve noticed in discussions with audiences that most of their questions go back to the real stories. It’s not that there’s
any marketing strategy involved on my part, but I think people are more moved by true stories.
Did processing your own family experiences on film help you to maintain a special sensitivity for the fate of your protagonist?
ADRIAN GOIGINGER: I don't think I’d have been allowed to make the film at all if Barbara Pachl-Eberhart hadn't seen The Best of All Worlds. Not long after her book Four Minus Three was published, there was an attempt to make a film adaptation which ultimately
failed. The conversations with Barbara were very important, and I felt that making this film version of her work was a huge
responsibility. It was clear to me – and later Valerie Pachner felt the same – that we could only make the film by working
together with Barbara Pachl-Eberhart. She was very involved in all phases from the screenplay onwards, because we felt it
was crucial for her to be behind this film. We had a great working relationship, and she demonstrated an impressive understanding
of what is required when real events are fictionalized. Her book of the same name focuses on the character’s inner voice,
while we wanted to tell the story through her concrete conflicts with her immediate surroundings and her new partner. I found
it fascinating that she grew into a reluctant heroine. We wouldn't have started writing the script at all if Barbara hadn't
given us the feeling in our conversations that she wanted to go on this journey, and that she trusted us.
The narrative structure of FOUR MINUS THREE features flashbacks and the events that take place after the tragic incident.
Was it important to you to build up the tension between what Barbara’s life had been like and how it continues?
ADRIAN GOIGINGER: I was interested in that tension, on the one hand, but also in these two worlds and the two lives she led, which could hardly
have been divided by a more striking caesura. There are some fine films that Senad and I used for reference here, including
Broken Circle Breakdown, Marriage Story and Manchester by the Sea, which also use a non-linear narrative style to make the effect of the events bearable. We didn't write the script chronologically,
although the film was shot that way – but then a lot was changed during the editing, resulting in a completely different narrative
structure. FOUR MINUS THREE is a prime example of the fact that some stories need a non-linear narrative.
One very strong narrative and cinematographic element is rooted in the fact that both Barbara and her husband worked as clowns.
What does the figure of the clown bring to a cinematic narrative?
ADRIAN GOIGINGER: I’d say the figure of the clown constitutes an opportunity and a danger, at the same time. Quite a lot of people have an
aversion to clowns. It’s essentially a great world to immerse yourself in, but you do have to be very careful. We studied
the literature on the philosophy of the clown, and we came to the conclusion that there are many clown films which aren’t
initially perceived as such, such as Toni Erdmann, where the father creates a clown character so he can rebuild his relationship with his daughter. We had a clown consultant,
we visited street festivals, and we met lots of real clowns. It was a particularly rewarding aspect of the research, and as
director I enjoyed writing and developing the clown acts.
The particularly gripping thing about Barbara Pachl-Eberhart's story is that her clown philosophy, which she and her husband
Heli lived and practiced – always looking at things from the flip side – is so often put to the test. After that blow, she
had to apply the approach that she always used to claim was the basis of her life.
Valerie Pachner’s role allows her to display her comic talents, but she predominantly embodies the enormous, uncontrollable
emotionality of grief. What did you see as the great demands on this role?
ADRIAN GOIGINGER: Two things came together at the right moment. When Terrence Malick's A Hidden Life came out, with Valerie playing Franz Jägerstätter's wife, I’d done some reading on the themes of FOUR MINUS THREE. I was deeply
impressed by Valerie Pachner’s ability to convey so much emotion in that film with so few words. I met her at the 2020 Berlin
Film Festival, and we had a long talk where I told her all about the project, though there wasn't even a script at that time.
I don't think she took it very seriously back then. When we did the first test shoot, it just confirmed my feeling that she
was the right person to cast as Barbara. The way Valerie gets involved in a role is something I’ve seldom seen; she goes for
it 100% emotionally in every take, regardless of the consequences. The editor who saw all the takes couldn't believe we hadn’t
needed to use any fake tears from the make-up artist. With someone like that, the director doesn’t have to do much.
What is it in your well-established collaboration with cinematographer Paul Sprinz that made you use handheld cameras so extensively?
ADRIAN GOIGINGER: It's sort of become my style. The Best of All Worlds, Rickerl and Four Minus Three are all anchored in a similar cosmos. I like to work with a handheld camera and quite close shots. When it comes to dialogue,
I like to shoot with two cameras in parallel, which covers any improvisation on both sides. And we were working with children
again; the girl who played Fini, who wasn’t even two years old, impressed me a lot with her fearless attitude towards the
camera. I worked with Paul Sprinz even before I started my studies. We function really well as a team. And with actors like
Valerie Pachner, Robert Stadlober and Hanno Koffler, who give so much and are so immersed in their roles, I think they’re
appealing to watch because it's honest and meant seriously. It's my style to be close to the characters. And we’ve been inspired
by a lot of examples. I didn't invent anything new. The great advantage with a handheld camera is that the actors have a certain
freedom to move around the room spontaneously. In The Best of All Worlds, with a child as the main character, I didn’t have any choice. But over the years, I have learned to love it, and now I use
handheld cameras even when there are only adults around.
In the last sequence you seem to shift to a dream level, or at least a level that has nothing to do with the rational world.
What were your thoughts behind this last scene?
ADRIAN GOIGINGER: Final scenes are particularly important to me in my films. They are what stick in your mind when you come out of the cinema.
I always feel a huge pressure for it to be as powerful as possible, without relying on dialogue. I want final scenes to be
very emotional and still leave something to be worked through. So I was faced with the question of which aspect was still
open; what would Barbara still have to do? We came up with an answer: she still hadn't said goodbye to her daughter. Since
she couldn’t face it as Barbara, she had to do it as her clown alter ego, Heidi Appenzeller. Which brings me back to Toni Erdmann, where the main character can’t bring herself to hug her father. Only when he confronts her in costume does she manage to
build that closeness. Balloons run through the entire film in terms of meaning. We fell back on the symbolism of the red balloon,
which has always stood for unattained goals and unfulfillable wishes, and that struck us as the right ending: that she would
say goodbye to her daughter in a clown performance and let her soul go.
Interview: Karin Schiefer
November 2025
